tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-658537951446112192.post3885721353688597728..comments2023-07-07T02:11:40.181-07:00Comments on Make love, not traffic.: Now there's a thoughtLuna Santinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03560055723000388540noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-658537951446112192.post-2769188458343251002007-12-01T23:07:00.000-08:002007-12-01T23:07:00.000-08:00Thank you, I sincerely appreciate your saying that...Thank you, I sincerely appreciate your saying that.Luna Santinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03560055723000388540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-658537951446112192.post-52111547870184831982007-12-01T13:42:00.000-08:002007-12-01T13:42:00.000-08:00Hmmm. I've said I'm on it, Jimbo has said, some o...Hmmm. I've said I'm on it, Jimbo has said, some others have said - but since the list is primarily for victims of stalking it's not a big surprise that not everybody is queueing up to say "me too". You wouldn't really expect them to.<BR/><BR/>And it's not being played cloak-and-dagger either. Every list member who has posted, has said that Durova screwed up royally and if we'd had even the slightest inclination she was thinking of doing that then we'd have advised her not to. It's a bit harsh to denounce people for not stopping something they had no idea was going to happen.<BR/><BR/>What we're not going to do is post the membership list (for obvious reasons), post the contents of some incredibly personal discussions that have gone on there, open the world of hurt to the prurient interest of people who were, in some cases, an active part of that hurt, or pretend that we've done anything wrong. Because we haven't.<BR/><BR/>It really is very simple: this is a group that grew up from an email trail from some people who had been harassed, and whose attempts to minimise or refactor that harassment had been aggressively reverted, with the effect of increasing the volume and profile of the harassment. This really is not a good thing for Wikipedia to have happening. You know about people like Judd Bagley; they will do *anything* to get back at Wikipedia for daring to stop them abuse the project for their own ends.Guy Chapmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09205315179012424952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-658537951446112192.post-20259726448962335122007-12-01T12:18:00.000-08:002007-12-01T12:18:00.000-08:00A fair point, worth considering, but I have to dis...A fair point, worth considering, but I have to disagree, it's not without cause at all. I think it's entirely understandable that several in the community are outraged, and pretty much unacceptable that so few people will even say whether they're ON the list. There's no hint of, "Durova was acting alone, that's now how things should go," nor of, "Durova had some support, but not everyone's," nor even any significant impression of, "A mistake was made, and it was made on this list. Oops."<BR/><BR/>For the most part, it's all being played cloak-and-daggers, with nobody even taking the slight responsibility of saying, "I'm a list member, I feel bad about this." Has this happened, before? Will it happen again? Do the list members care? Factoring in the incident with Krimpet, my impression of this list is not good. The list members aren't helping that any by going into hiding and keeping mum. One could easily get the impression that Durova's mistake, from the list perspective, was in getting caught.<BR/><BR/>Is that the wrong impression? I'd love to think so. But given the way this is being handled, it's no surprise some people are thinking that way.Luna Santinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03560055723000388540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-658537951446112192.post-462641198142088802007-12-01T04:37:00.000-08:002007-12-01T04:37:00.000-08:00Luna, the reason that those who have spoken out ha...Luna, the reason that those who have spoken out have given no answers is that there are no answers to give. Durova did not give any indication that a block was even being considered, so however often and however shrilly we are demanded to reveal who approved the block, there will never be any answer other than: nobody did. <BR/><BR/>Durova's main problem was the a priori assumption of bad faith. I am having some trouble seeing how an a priori assumption of bad faith against others actually helps improve that situation.Guy Chapmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09205315179012424952noreply@blogger.com